Ella Mesma Company

Dispora Dance Theatre

Exploring gender fluidity through dance & the divinity…

This is a beautiful podcast that I recorded for Natalie Orr, an incredible human and friend!

Listen to us here and let us know your thoughts in the comments!

I met Natalie many years ago in one of my nine lives, when I was directing and running a company in Leeds, which I created in 2005, called Element Dance (now owned and directed by Hannah Bertram and called Element Arts).

Natalie and my conversation took us everywhere from the joy of dance, reminiscing the joys of samba and salsa, honouring the power and growth in starting before you are ready, as well as challenging the concept of ‘high art’, and talking about some of the problematic aspects of gender in dance… and of course, connecting this to both of our roles as coach and our spiritual paths.

Here are what listeners have said so far,

“What a fun conversation. I loved the part where you both explored that the process of giving actually brings you closer to yourself, and vice versa — the closer you get to yourself, the more clear you are on what you can give. Thanks!!” 


“Beautiful conversation! About the gender question in ballet I think the same, not only in class but also in the main ballet repertoire. It could be really interesting and helpful switching the parts or creating something gender neutral in it. I know that it could be difficult because there are a specific story in a ballet, but this could help everyone to evolve and take the distance from only one way of seeing the ballet world and the society in general!”

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